Posts by not a captive

52

Was it EX JW literature / WT's or the BIBLE which woke you up? Post scriptures if any....

by EndofMysteries in

i considered myself immune to ex jw stuff.

no amount of old watchtowers or anything would change me.

it was seeing treatment of others by elders and the bible itself, which woke me.

not a captive

I never read any ex-JW literature before I sent in my letter of DA.

I was convinced that God was a real being through an experience similar to the one that Abraham experienced when he was tested. That experience and reading the Bible made me feel primarily responsible to God not the FDS. Over the years the way the Organization undermined Jesus and Jehovah as our leaders made me look again at the significance of Genesis 22. Of the many things that are misrepresented in this account one that began to resonate with me is the ignorance that Abraham had of any "doctrine". He didn't rely on a committee to help him "take in knowledge of God". Rather he got to "know God" in a more direct way. Never mediated by anyone else.

The scriptures finally separated me from the Organization. The Branch would not tolerate an alternate understanding of their version of Jehovah's test of Abraham.They say that God called for a bloody sacrifice. I read that God asked for a new thing when he asked for Isaac as a burnt offering. I believe that each of us have to find where we are called to our own mount Moriah and engage with God at that point . "Taking in knowledge of God" is a lousey translation of John 17:3 that destroys or at least distorts the only way of knowing God---- through a measure of ignorance. Yes, a measure of ignorance in which he shows each one of us who he is.

I study the scriptures to deconstruct the layers of falsehood the Organization force fed us. There are many treasures in the scriptures. But we can search and search them and never, ever find God in them alone because the men who wrote them hardly knew what they were saying. We won't find God without a little risk--and Jesus.

I understand "burnt offering" to be a free and trusting relationship not a forced bloody submission. No committees, no corporation, no governing bodies. Only Jesus. Only his Father. Genesis 22.

68

Do You Think Prostitution Should Be Illegal?

by minimus in

jw
friends

recently, in my area, a number of people have gotten caught looking to pay for sex from a call girl.

a catholic priest was one of the "johns" that got arrested.. i know there are some that argue that it is debasing.

still, for a million years, it's been going on and there are willing parties who want to engage in this activity.. if two consenting adults want to have sex with one another and are willing to pay and accept the services, is it a horrible thing, in your opinion?.

not a captive

Great points, finally free and freydo,

But now I'm wondering how my husband got seven kids out of me and I didn't even get running water??!!!!

58

Feeling down

by tec in

my son got suspended from school for fighting.

not just fighting but choking another boy during their fight.

he started it in anger over something the other boy did, but none of that actually matters.

not a captive

28

What is your concept of God?

by transhuman68 in

given that the god of the old testament & the new testament don't seem to match up, and our first impression of god may be based on our parents, and the many progressive christian religions that stress god's love and grace, we probably all have completely different ideas of who god is; if he/she does exist.

i always thought god was a strict, bad-tempered kill-joy..

not a captive

I was raised a Catholic. So I had a concept of God built into me along those lines until I was 26 years old and I had to do something with it. I had to actually deal with God. But I didn't hear from him until I didn't know anything anymore.

Now I don't have a concept of God. I love him.

30

Why can't the WTS handle the truth on why people really leave the organization?

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

what do you think are the reasons why the wts can't handle the truth on why members quit?

why must they disfellowship everyone who would say something like this to an elder on why he/she no longer wishes to be a member......................................................................................................... '' i do not want to be a member any longer because of the changing ''generation'' teaching,the wts is just a publishing and real estate corporation,the preaching work is just a means to distribute books and magazines,the baptism and disfellowshipping of teenagers is wrong,the meetings are boring,the meetings are repetative, the 144,000 is symbolic not literal ...etc.....etc.....

not a captive

dgp, I think along the lines you do on this. Those parts of the managers of the Corporation have to be a piece of work to do what they do. But so many believe or try to.

67

Jehovah and the Munchausen Syndrome

by Terry in

what is munchausen by proxy syndrome?.

one of the most harmful forms of child abuse, munchausen by proxy syndrome was named after baron von munchausen, an eighteenth-century german dignitary known for telling outlandish stories.

a parent will induce illness or injury in their own child and then take the victim in to the hospital to be seen as the heroic savior.. typically, the perpetrator feels satisfied when he or she has the attention and sympathy of doctors, nurses, and others who come into contact with him or her and the child.. because the parent or caregiver appears to be so caring and attentive, often no one suspects any wrongdoing.. .

not a captive

That is true, Greek seems to have more sophistication than ancient Hebrew. That is why I invite any to consider how difficult it is for scholars, Hebrew scholars to unlock the ideas behind the older writing. The transmission of iconcrete names and common action was the first job that language undertook and it is said that Hebrew as an early(some say the earliest) language was very graphic in expressing a thought. I read that words were so formed that even the culture was carried with the formation of a word.

But a new idea is hard to express, isn't it?

But if there were ideas that a benevolent being wished to convey , wouldn't these be hard to express ? But even before they were spoken (as through a thick-headed-hearted prophet like, say, Jonah) wouldn't it be nearly impossible for humans to understand? I think of so many instances that God tried to get a new definition out there, a new concept. And we humans, the Jews in this case, just couldn't understand what he was getting at.

I think of Jesus redefining the idea of who a neighbor is. The root word for neighbor in both Greek and Hebrew has to do with being in close proximity to someone. Jesus changes it from the customary definition of the Jew next door to that of a stranger who needs your kind attention. I think of his telling the story of the Good Samaritan and ending it with a question"Who of the three made himself neighbor to the man who was robbed?" reveals that just the literal meaning, the root of a word, will not tell us God's mind. If we want to get what is being said we have to listen like someone playing a game of Charade.Kind of figure it out. Maybe some Jews "got it". They got a lot of credit for trying at least. David was a bloody man but God gave him a lot of credit for picking himself up and trying again. It comes down to good will.

I kind of have to rely on you for that. I have to trust that this post is open enough that my own stumbling attempts at communication are given generous consideration. I don't expect mindless concession but I do hope for mindful disagreement.

In trying to figure God's position in this mess humanity is in--and I do think it is a mess--I wouldn't suspect God of being so misunderstood if I didn't know how violent and cruel we humans are--even when we thing we are being just. The very words that the Hebrew use to describe male and female are really disturbing. I have thought for years that this indicates such a basic disturbance in the household of man that I don't know how God can deal with us.

This post has most to with how God set such an ambush for humanity. I just cannot concede so quickly that God is such a son-of-a-bitch. I think he was caught associating with the wrong types, so to speak, us. I think we did create God in our own image --and we just don't like ourselves.

Respectfully, Maeve

15

Feeling a bit sloppy but...love you all on here...

by Lozhasleft in

jw
friends

just wanted to say...this place has been so good for me...i log on now every day and i find the people here are so kind and caring and funny...i really needed this more than i realised...so thank you all for accepting me on board without any 'conditions' ...its the best...thank you...it helps so much..... loz x.

not a captive

I love this place. I am so happy that we have that silly rose to pass to each other.

Maeve

67

Jehovah and the Munchausen Syndrome

by Terry in

what is munchausen by proxy syndrome?.

one of the most harmful forms of child abuse, munchausen by proxy syndrome was named after baron von munchausen, an eighteenth-century german dignitary known for telling outlandish stories.

a parent will induce illness or injury in their own child and then take the victim in to the hospital to be seen as the heroic savior.. typically, the perpetrator feels satisfied when he or she has the attention and sympathy of doctors, nurses, and others who come into contact with him or her and the child.. because the parent or caregiver appears to be so caring and attentive, often no one suspects any wrongdoing.. .

not a captive

Look at the alphabet they use and think about language. http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/28_chart.html

Also there is a topic on a potsherd from Israel on this board with a sample of ancient Hebrew on it. My point is that there is a problem transmitting really accurate information and concepts from the past up to now.

It seems to me the only really compelling God information from the past is this: We are really messed up creatures whether we want to blame it on God or our simian ancestors. The story of Araham as a progenitor of faith resonates with me as a likely event. The story of Abraham's descendents with a mass exodus from Egyptian slavery makes me suspect that something like that occurred--because it would be hard to impossible to get an intire people to fabricate such a thing if it were an outright lie IMHO. Jesus hitting the scene is relevant and historical.

Beyond these markers I find the idea of "orthodoxy" difficult to uphold. I believe that the story of Abraham marks a call to individual faith that we may speak of to each other but may not compel others to follow. I believe that Jesus reinforced this in his life and his teaching. To expect ancient texts to connect these elements can be tricky--especially when we have to rely on human intermediaries--translators. When I look at the potsherd from Israel I find it insulting for anyone to quibble about theological points--one way or another.

If God is present in this vast whatever-it-is, we can only each find him in the proportion that we even seek him. We are not going to be finding him through a Knowledge Book. I do read the Bible --but come on--they didn't write things like we do on this post--and we are not all that great sometimes at communicating ourselves. It is difficult to assess our own history and express it.

Again--Who made language, us or God?

67

Jehovah and the Munchausen Syndrome

by Terry in

what is munchausen by proxy syndrome?.

one of the most harmful forms of child abuse, munchausen by proxy syndrome was named after baron von munchausen, an eighteenth-century german dignitary known for telling outlandish stories.

a parent will induce illness or injury in their own child and then take the victim in to the hospital to be seen as the heroic savior.. typically, the perpetrator feels satisfied when he or she has the attention and sympathy of doctors, nurses, and others who come into contact with him or her and the child.. because the parent or caregiver appears to be so caring and attentive, often no one suspects any wrongdoing.. .

not a captive

cyberjesus, You have struck on the real crux of all disputes on the God story: Language.

You think God created the words for us? Why do you think that?

68

Do You Think Prostitution Should Be Illegal?

by minimus in

jw
friends

recently, in my area, a number of people have gotten caught looking to pay for sex from a call girl.

a catholic priest was one of the "johns" that got arrested.. i know there are some that argue that it is debasing.

still, for a million years, it's been going on and there are willing parties who want to engage in this activity.. if two consenting adults want to have sex with one another and are willing to pay and accept the services, is it a horrible thing, in your opinion?.

not a captive

I wouldn't prostitute for money (Not that there'd be any takers, just for the sake of discussion here).

I wouldn't get an abortion either.(Not that I can have kids any more.)

But I can see why if abortion is legal that prostitution would be legal:People do it, make it safe.

If there are reasons we feel these activities are destructive to the individuals involved (Obviously the fetus, but I mean the women and the men,too) then talk to one another and definitely find out what your mate thinks about this stuff-- It is after all in the heart that these things reside.

That said, I won't campaign for it.